With Russia now shifting its forces to the east of Ukraine in an attempt to secure the Donbas region, Eduard Aleksandrovich Basurin, the official representative of the Donetsk region, recognised by Russia as Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR), speaks exclusively to India Today’s Geeta Mohan.
He not only highlighted the possibility of persisting tensions along the Ukraine-Russia border but also said that the West wanted to destroy Russia and would not stop at just that. It would go for India next.
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India Today: What is the ground situation? How much of Ukrainian territory is under the control of the Donetsk People’s Militia (the DPR)?
Eduard Basurin: Almost 65% of our territory (Donetsk Oblast) is controlled by us and 35% is under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The main control is in the south of the Republic (what they call Donetsk People’s Republic, now recognised by Russia as an independent state), northern and southern parts are under the control of the Ukrainian fighters.
Policemen on Wednesday try to identify civilians killed in Bucha on the outskirts of Kyiv, Ukraine, before sending the bodies to the morgue. (AP/PTI)
IT: What are the challenges you are facing at the strategic and tactical levels? We see a lot of international support for Ukraine.
EB: The main problem is not that they are better supplied. The problem is that the Ukrainian Army is not returning (withdrawing). The most equipped forces of Ukraine are here in the south of Donbas. There are about 1,00,000 soldiers, a full range of weaponry, but no aviation. The supply of weapons committed by Europe is for Ukrainian territories, such as Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Odesa. Weapons are not sent to us.
IT: Do you think that Ukraine is focusing its energies on the eastern front with the withdrawal of Russian forces from the western parts of Ukraine like Kyiv, Irpin, and Bucha, among others?
EB: That is not the point. Ukraine started deploying military forces here towards the end of last year. The whole army of Ukraine has 2,42,000 soldiers. The (deployment) here was 1,50,000. They were preparing their operation to attack our Republic and this aggressive attack and operation had to (was being planned to) begin in March of this year. They brought a huge amount of weaponry and equipment.
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They have also been supplied with armoured vehicles, mortars, UAVs, and other ammunition.
A family walks past destroyed Russian tanks in Bucha on the outskirts of Kyiv, Ukraine. (AP/PTI)
IT: Are the Ukrainians better trained than before as they received training from North Atlantic Treaty Organization (Nato) members?
A: I would like to turn the question around and answer. The Ukrainian Army was weaker in 2014. Now, it has gotten stronger and more mobile. This process lasted eight years. Of course, there was direct participation of Nato instructors. That is why we need to make the comparison in terms of time lapsed.
IT: Can you then compare the forces of the two sides for us?
EB: Let me try to explain. Russians think that we should fight not by numbers but by the skills of our military. In 2014, when the decision by the Ukrainian government was made to use their military against the civilian population, they showed the numbers to suppress us. But the people here resisted. They showed their force despite having a smaller number and that was the reason why the Ukrainians stopped and we secured the ‘Minsk Agreement’.
That is why Ukraine’s army was restructured and they are stronger and psychologically more prepared now. They are ready to kill even civilians. The Ukrainian government prepares the soldiers ideologically. The people of Donbas are not human beings to these forces. That is why they are expendable. Anyone who speaks Russian, thinks Russian, or even goes to the Russian Church, is an enemy to them and can be killed.
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Let me compare the situation with that in India in a historical context. When Indians rose against British rule, they did not have weapons, skills or experience like the British Army. But India showed that it [Independence] was possible and started to learn to fight and proved that the people and their faith were stronger. It is the same here.
Journalists walk inside a destroyed warehouse for storing food, after an attack by Russia in Brovary on the outskirts of Kyiv, Ukraine, on March 29. (AP Photo)
IT: How many strategic positions have been taken so far?
EB: Our objectives are set — to liberate the territories of Donetsk and to save as many lives as possible. People in Donetsk Oblast region are our people. We are fighting for them.
Apart from the military objectives, there is the psychological strategy. Mariupol is proof that shows the Ukrainian forces as well as the Nato that no matter how they train the [Ukrainian] soldiers, we will beat them. That is why the rest of the Ukrainian formations should be encircled from the north where the Russian Federation will help and from the south together by Russian forces and Donetsk People’s Militia.
We can then dictate the rules. The most important priority is to save lives. Mariupol demonstrates what happens to you when you resist. You have no support from Ukraine. You (Ukrainians) will all be killed here.
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Debris of a Russian jet fighter on a private house in Chernihiv, Ukraine, on Wednesday. Russia retreated from areas around Kyiv and the northern cities of Chernihiv and Sumy after talks with Ukraine in Turkey last week. (AP Photo)
IT: The world calls this a Russian invasion. But there is the Donetsk People’s Militia as well. What is the level of cooperation between the Donetsk People’s Militia and the Russian forces?
EB: The whole world had the opportunity to watch when the President of the Russian Federation signed the decree of the two Republics (Donetsk and Luhansk). It occurred exactly before the military operation. No one was hiding it.
One of the documents was about military cooperation. If I am not mistaken, seven states (nations) have already recognised that there is now a government structure in these territories (recognised Donetsk and Luhansk as independent Republics). That is why everybody is looking at the Russian Federation. If you look carefully, we exist. The international observers don’t even know where Ukraine is, but they know Russia. Like in India, everybody knows India but they don’t know all the states of India.
IT: What is the importance of Mariupol Melitopol and Kherson for Donetsk?
EB: You should look at the geography of the area. This is the nearest point to Crimea (territory annexed by Russia in 2014). The distance from Donetsk to Simferopol (capital of Crimea) is 550 km, which is exactly where Mariupol and Melitopol lie. But, we shouldn’t forget Odesa where our people are living as well, and Kherson too.
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IT: How many of the soldiers on the frontline between Ukraine and Donetsk of the Donbass region are from Russia and how many are from Donetsk?
EB: The Ukrainian forces are about 80,000-90,000 and I cannot divulge our numbers. It is confidential information. But it is around the same.
IT: Is it much more?
EB: Or much less. I cannot tell you. We are not talking about numbers but skill.
IT: You think you are more skilled?
EB: I am not sure. I have always said our enemy should be respected. We should never underestimate them.
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IT: If Ukraine does not agree to give up Mariupol during negotiations, will the border areas forever remain tense?
EB: If the goals adopted by the President of the Russian Federation [Vladimir Putin] are not implemented, that of demilitarisation and denazification, the situation will be similar to that of India and Pakistan and India and China.
This question should be solved right now. (On a lighter note) If even 5% of your (Indian) population comes to help us, we will win and this will be over.
There is an attempt by Western forces in Ukraine to destroy the Russian Federation. They will not stop at that. India will be next because it has similar problems — territorial, language, faiths, etc.
I am not asking India to blindly follow and help us. You can help in many ways. The neutral stance at the UN Security Council is helpful as well.
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IT: There are accusations of war crimes by the Donetsk and Russian forces against civilians. What is your response?
EB: War crimes started in 2014. Everyone has heard about it. I am not just talking of the summer of 2014 when whole cities were shelled by Ukraine. Nobody from Ukraine called that a war crime — not the UN, not human rights, not even other international organisations or foreign journalists.
Suddenly in 2022, war crimes against civilians are making headlines.
Let’s go back to Indian history. Was anybody from the British Army charged for war crimes committed in India? Someone accused Japan of massacring 2,00,000 people. But nobody recalls that. They need pictures only to accuse Russia.
IT: We still need a direct answer on the accusations of war crimes committed by your forces and the Russian forces.
EB: I decline to respond. Why should I prove my innocence to someone when it is true. I am scared there will be more bloodshed in the future. There are accusations of using chemical and biological weapons. Should we keep explaining ourselves? It is simpler to go there and expose the lies.
We will go in and bring foreign journalists to show them the truth. We should respect ourselves.
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IT: India has taken a neutral stand by abstaining from voting at the UN Security Council but has also added in its statement the need to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of nations.
EB: Why do they think that the Russian Federation attacked and invaded Ukraine? I live here in this territory (Donetsk, Donbas) and everything happened in front of my eyes. The Ukrainian Army came here and started to kill my people. It is our war.
Ukrainian troops inspect the site of a Russian airstrike in Kyiv, Ukraine, on February 26. (AP Photo)
The situation was forcibly brought to the head and then they started saying that Russia is an invader and is only here to capture.
We don’t want to let go of our faith, language, our lifestyle and our history. It is not about Russian aggression. It was what the foreign media portrayed to destroy Russia.